There is an infinite possibility in theatre

Taufik: I am invited to Teater Garasi every three months. The BPAF is now in a flexible state and it can be run by other members; it's not a problem if I go away to Garasi. At Garasi, we don't necessarily perform the completed work. We sometimes perform a piece as a work in progress or invite others to have discussions and workshops as a "Dramaturgy Assembly".

Fujiwara: You told us about spending a year researching for a BPAF project. It seems like you put a great emphasis on the process as well as on presenting the work. I think it is a trend in performing arts in recent years to place more importance on the process, and it is an idea that I can also relate to myself. With this trend in mind, how do you see the finished "work"?

Taufik: I think that going through different processes and completing the work do not necessarily go against each other but are always connected. There is a stream of creative process that will ultimately lead on to the work. I think the term of curation and curator in the world of performing arts in Indonesia is relatively new; for example, the curation I do at Teater Garasi is like a "laboratory". I learn by just experimenting with so many different things. I consider curation as it a place to obtain new knowledge and to conduct experiments. And I believe this is what leads to the finalised work.

Fujiwara: In taking that approach, how do you consider the "audience"? If you run a laboratory, what is presented is not always a finished work. Is there already a group of audience who would come and see the unfinished work or are you not too conscious about the audience?

Taufik: This is a laboratory for both the creators and the audience. The audience is also expected to comment on what they see and engage actively in the creation. They not only watch passively from their seats but become involved in the process of trial and error. Making comments doesn't mean saying things like "why don't you perform this piece like this?" or making a judgement on a piece, saying it is good or bad. Such opinions are based on one's preconceptions about how theatre should be, which comes from what the audience have seen before. It is more about watching the process of trial and error and commenting on what is actually happening there. We conduct the laboratory in a black box theatre, an atelier or sometimes outdoors. The audience would see what is expressed through the different approaches to theatre and then would voice their thoughts about them.

Fujiwara: Does that mean that we are seeing a "new audience" in Yogyakarta who actively engage in experimental performances? Audience development is a big theme in theatre, but in Japan, we have long been obsessed with the idea of "increasing the number" of audience members. It is based on the idea of making theatre economically viable by increasing the number of people who buy tickets to see the completed work. Yet in recent years, we see more artists disclosing their creative process and showing their work in progress, and I think there are more audience members who are interested in this process.

Taufik: Teater Garasi in Yogyakarta is thinking about the relationship between theatre and the audience and is trying to change it. The audience are not only seeing theatre based on the aesthetic value of its finished work but are also seeing the work in progress and are actively anticipating how it would change or develop later.

There is an infinite possibility in theatre. I want people to understand that. That's why I don't want them to go to the theatre with preconceptions. I am trying to show that there are many different ways of creating theatrical work, and I hope that the audience will also see it that way. I want to empower the audience to appreciate the change that theatre is undergoing, and I would like to establish a relationship between theatre and its audience that would enable people to view theatre in this way.

Wayang kulit also has a structure that enables us to see it from two different sides. You can see it from the side of the shadows and also from the side of the puppets and players. The latter is now more common, but just like that, I want people to know that there can be different ways of performing and appreciating theatre which are free from existing notions.

Fujiwara: I was also shocked and inspired by the double-sided structure of wayang kulit. It completely changes your perception of the stage and the auditorium.

Taufik: Originally, it was the royalty and the noblemen who saw the shadows and the ordinary people who watched the players handling the puppets from the back.

Fujiwara: I see. Now, we can't tell which is front or back. I once saw a wayang kulit performance in Yogyakarta that started at 9pm and finished around 3am in the morning. People were watching it as they were lying down, drinking coffee or smoking. There was a real sense of freedom!

Taufik: Wayang kulit itself is flexible, and there really is no a distinction between the performers and spectators. There are also people selling food. Wayang is not only performed in Yogyakarta but also in Bandung where it is called Wayang Golek. It uses wooden puppets instead of shadows.

Fujiwara: So we see the various possibilities of theatre in the traditional performing arts as well.

Taufik: Before importing modern theatre and dance, I think the "performing arts" was considered to include all the elements that we just talked about. They became separated in the modern era, but to begin with, I believe there were many different elements that made up the performing arts.

Fujiwara: As one of the three emerging curators of the Indonesian Dance Festival (IDF), I heard that you are inviting young choreographers from various regions in Indonesia. How did you manage to bring together choreographers from so many different areas?

Taufik: We selected choreographers from the participants of the workshop that I co-curated with Nia Agustina of the Paradance Festival in Yogyakarta and Linda Agnesia from the Cemeti Institute for Art and Society who is also based in Yogyakarta. They are choreographers in their twenties and early thirties.

Makiko Yamaguchi (Japan Foundation Asia Center): At the IDF, there is a showcase programme of young choreographers called "KAMPANA" besides the main programme. And another dozen choreographers, who are even younger, are invited from all around Indonesia to take part in the IDF programme. There is a possibility that some works of these young choreographers may be programmed in the showcase next time. Rather than simply introducing the very young choreographers out of nowhere, it seems that there is a system where they experience a number of workshops while receiving advice from curators of their own generation like Taufik, Nia and Linda.

Taufik: We as mentors try to navigate the young choreographers to a more advanced stage.

Fujiwara: Does the IDF intend to create a cycle of generational changes?

Taufik: As a founding principle of the IDF, it aims to discover young talent in choreography. Who is coming after Eko Supriyanto? Rianto. Then who is after Rianto? Developing new talent like this is one of the original missions of the IDF.

Fujiwara: It is important to have a system of circulation. In Japan, there has been a bad habit where as soon as you see a new talent appear on the scene, adults would quickly gather around and direct it towards a higher stage. Maybe it is because we tried too hard to compete freely against each other through friendly rivalry. I myself may have been involved in creating such a system. Just as we talked about placing more emphasis on the creative process, I believe it is our task to create a sustainable environment in which we strive to nurture both artists and the audience.

By the way, you are involved not only in theatre but also in dance as a curator. Are you moving across different genres or do you think that categories like "theatre" or "dance" are not important anyway?

Taufik: There are people who are fussy about differentiating "theatre" and "dance" but for me, there is no distinction or barrier between them. As you see, as we call ourselves the Bandung "Performing Arts" Forum!

[on February 14. 2019, at Yokohama Port Opening Memorial Hall]

Interviewer: Chikara Fujiwara
Born in Kochi (Japan) in 1977. He is based in Yokohama and is active in Japan and overseas as a critic/artist/curator/mentor/dramaturg. With the aim of connecting a world divided by "invisible walls," he produced a flaneur-style touring project called "ENGEKI QUEST" in Yokohama, Kinosaki, Manila, Düsseldorf, Ansan, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Bangkok. Inspired by his interest in human mobility, he created the performances, "Woman in A Port" (2017) and "HONEYMOON" (2018), and he invented "IsLand Bar" with transnational artists at ADAM 2017 and the Taipei Arts Festival 2018. Since 2017, he has been a Senior Fellow at The Saison Foundation and the East Asian Cultural Exchange Envoy of Japan Agency for Cultural Affairs. In 2019 April, he founded an art collective "orangcosong" with Minori Sumiyoshiyama.

Interview photo: Kentaro Kase